I think leaving the old GSP, credits, and wealth the same for the first 10 VCs would be best. While keeping the rp cost for them at the new rate the same.  At levels VC20-VC30 it may be worth considering overlooking the need for IG costs and the item IG for the custom item requests.  Starting at VC30 and going down the list at that level including a Clubhouse and or a store would go a long way in making a VC30 more desirable considering the rp costs.  I understand some people may be able to chop or retire and get a VC30 or 29, but I still think it would be fair considering time spent catching the character up over time.  Some of the higher level VCs could possibly including a domus as well.

Sincerely,

Mavro

Package (Cost) | GSPs | Credits | Wealth | Attributes | Extras |
1. (500 rps) | 125 | 5 | 2.5t | 10 | None | 1000 RP value, 50% discount
| 2. (1000 rps) | 250 | 10 | 5t | 15 | None | 1,500 RP value 33% discount
| 3. (1500 rps) | 375 | 15 | 7.5t | 20 | None | 2,000 RP value 25% discount
| 4. (2000 rps) | 500 | 20 | 10t | 25 | None | 2,500 RP value 20% discount
| 5. (4000 rps) | 750 | 40 | 20t | 30 | Makeover | 4,000 RP value No discount
| 6. (5000 rps) | 1000 | 50 | 25t | 40 | Makeover and custom item | 7,500 RP value 33% discount
| 7. (6250 rps) | 1250 | 62 | 30t | 50 | Makeover and custom item | 8,500 RP value 26% discount
| 8. (7500 rps) | 1500 | 75 | 35t | 60 | Makeover and two custom items | 12,000 RP value 37% discount
| 9. (8750 rps) | 1750 | 87 | 40t | 70 | Makeover and two custom items | 13,000 RP value 32% discount
| 10. (10000 rps)| 2000 | 100 | 45t | 80 | Makeover and two custom items | 14,000 RP value 28% discount
| 11. (11250 rps)| 2250 | 112 | 50t | 85 | Makeover and two custom items | 14,500 RP value 22% discount
| 12. (12500 rps)| 2500 | 125 | 55t | 90 | Makeover and two custom items | 15,000 RP value 16% discount
| 13. (13750 rps)| 2750 | 137 | 60t | 95 | Makeover and two custom items | 15,500 RP value 11% discount
| 14. (15000 rps)| 3000 | 150 | 65t | 100 | Makeover and two custom items | 16,000 RP value 6% discount
| 15. (16250 rps)| 3250 | 162 | 70t | 105 | Makeover and two custom items | 16,500 RP value 2% discount
| 16. (17500 rps)| 3500 | 175 | 75t | 110 | Makeover and two custom items | 17,000 RP value 3% increase
| 17. (18750 rps)| 3750 | 187 | 80t | 115 | Makeover and two custom items | 17,500 RP value 7% increase
| 18. (20000 rps)| 4000 | 200 | 85t | 120 | Makeover and two custom items | 18,000 RP value 11% increase
| 19. (21250 rps)| 4250 | 212 | 90t | 125 | Makeover and two custom items | 18,500 RP value 15% increase
| 20. (22500 rps)| 4500 | 225 | 95t | 130 | Makeover and two custom items | 19,000 RP value 18% increase
| 21. (23750 rps)| 4750 | 237 | 100t | 135 | Makeover and two custom items | 19,500 RP value 21% increase
| 22. (25000 rps)| 5000 | 250 | 105t | 140 | Makeover and two custom items | 20,000 RP value 25% increase
| 23. (26250 rps)| 5250 | 262 | 110t | 145 | Makeover and two custom items | 20,500 RP value 28% increase
| 24. (27500 rps)| 5500 | 275 | 115t | 150 | Makeover and two custom items | 21,000 RP value 30% increase
| 25. (28750 rps)| 5750 | 287 | 120t | 155 | Makeover and two custom items | 21,500 RP value 33% increase
| 26. (30000 rps)| 6000 | 300 | 125t | 160 | Makeover and two custom items | 22,000 RP value 36% increase
| 27. (31250 rps)| 6250 | 312 | 130t | 165 | Makeover and two custom items | 22,500 RP value 38% increase
| 28. (32500 rps)| 6500 | 325 | 135t | 170 | Makeover and two custom items | 23,000 RP value 41% increase
| 29. (33750 rps)| 6750 | 337 | 140t | 175 | Makeover and two custom items | 23,500 RP value 43% increase
| 30. (35000 rps)| 7000 | 350 | 145t | 180 | Makeover and two custom items | 24,000 RP value 45% increase

I'll just try and keep it short and sweet. You could remove the GSP, the credits, and the money, it doesn't make any difference in the sale. The above is the value players see. The tangibles. and if I'm being totally honest, the general sentiment seems to be that even custom items under the new guidelines are not worth their cost.

The best case that can be made for WHY someone would spend the amounts required for almost any of these VC packages, is that they will make the purchases eventually anyways, so doing them at bulk for a DISCOUNT at the start is actually smart investment. If this is the sort of thing you're looking to create, you would have far more success scrapping that list, taking the RP value of the stat points, the makeover and the items, and offer a scaling discount. Start at 25% at vc1, and by vc30 it's at least 50% off. THAT would be something people bought.

It's also worth noting, character death is largely a choice in todays TEC. And with the content largely being focused around collecting and spending vast swaths of time IG, I can't see a world where anyone sacrificing a character that would qualify for anything beyond a vc8 as being something anyone would volunteer for. It takes way too long to get back to where they were before to justify it, when they're already at the top.

I think it might be best to ask. What are you hoping to accomplish with this system?

I agree with a lot that Rupert said. Without understanding why this is being proposed, this just looks like a worse value proposition than what currently exists. I'm sure a lot of folks would rather see the abusers punished than everyone else getting less value for their rps. 

Why change it from how it currently is, when the gms "appear" to be mostly absent?

Why make more work?

Above is the current VC package table for comparison.

Here are some pros I perceive:

Increased Granularity - 

• More tiers allow players to better tailor their 'investment', protentially making it easier to find a package that aligns with their RP budgets. 

Increased attributes -

• Players can now get up to 180 attributes with the new system. Probably the most valuable part of the Veteran Character. 

Lower Initial Costs - 

• Looks like all of the 1-10 packages in the new system all got halved in price. This reduces the barrier for entry-level packages. HOWEVER, the GSP, coin, and VC credits were also halved losing majority of their value. 

Cons:

Cost Increases Over Time

• The highest tiers in the proposed system are significantly more expensive than in the current system (e.g., 35,000 RPs for the top tier versus 20,000 RPs currently). Not that I think anyone is buying a VC10 outright but it is something to consider.

Marginal Value Decline

• As players move into higher tiers, the percentage discount diminishes, and eventually, costs exceed the perceived value, with increases of up to 45%.

Wealth/Credit Gains Plateau

• While the wealth and credit rewards grow with tiers, the percentage increase diminishes relative to the cost, making higher tiers less attractive in terms of raw value.

Complexity

• With 30 tiers instead of 10, it may overwhelm players trying to decide the optimal package, especially new players.

Pay-to-Win Perception

• The higher attribute points and extra benefits (e.g., custom items) at top tiers could reinforce the perception of pay-to-win mechanics, alienating non-premium players.

Steep Buy-In for Top Tiers

• While the starting tiers are cheaper, higher tiers escalate quickly in cost, potentially limiting accessibility for all but the most invested players.

Real Value Comparison

• For Casual Players:

  • The new system provides more affordable entry-level packages, making it easier to get started or slightly enhance a character. However, the higher tiers may feel unattainable due to steep cost increases.

• For Dedicated Players:

  • The additional attribute points and custom items at higher tiers offer significant benefits, but the escalating costs and diminishing returns make some packages less appealing.

• Overall:

  • The proposed system offers value at low and mid-range tiers due to better discounts and smoother progression. However, the very high tiers lose value because of cost inflation without proportional benefit increases.

Suggestions for Improvement

1. Cap Cost Escalation:

   • Limit cost increases in higher tiers to maintain proportional value and avoid alienating players.

2. Maintain Discounts at Higher Tiers:

   • Ensure that high-tier packages offer consistent discounts to appeal to dedicated players.

3. Add Unique Perks:

   • Introduce some sort of unique perks at higher tiers to justify the increased costs. 

Your new revision is much more reasonable! I retract most of my last post. It looks much better as a continuation of the existing VC system.

This is all fine and good - and makes a natural progressive sense. However - I'd suggest.

Putting HIGH credit cost items inside the generator - elsewise we are generally just converting stuff into coin - and 450 Credits is insane.

Not a bash - but with the changes to custom items I'd say 95% opt for the button push of +20 stat points.

Provide an additional high end extra 

The revised numbers are much better. The value is MUCH better.

From talking with players, the customers I seem to find who would consider purchasing these do so under a few conditions.

1) A half off sale, bringing down the prices even further.

This suggests to me that while it's better value now after your adjustment, it's still too expensive to consider as a stand alone purchase. I would wager purchases of this size, even at a discount, are not something a lot of players would save up for or spend on.

2) As an upgrade to a previously awarded VC package.

These are probably your most likely customers, especially with the light increments of 500 RP's. This could be further capitalized on by establishing intentional tiers within the VC levels, with similar jumps like the one at VC5 and VC6 with the addition of a custom item.

It would be helpful to know who you are targetting for these purchases, so we can better tailor suggestions.

If you're hoping to get more people to purchase VC's to start new characters, your biggest hurdle is incentivizing people to roll new characters or start over. But if that's not something you're willing to address, I've got some suggested modifications that could work with your current proposal that would bring lots of value to them.

Suggested modifications with existing system: 

- GSP to SP conversation, at least 10 to 1 rate. Additional purchase options reserved for ONLY gsp.

This would immediately bring a ton of value to the packages, and GSP generally speaking. 9000 SP isn't even out of the ludus yet. 90,000 SP is somewhere in the mid game. Combine this with worthwhile variables that can also be purchased with GSP so people are tempted not to just dump it all in SP.

- More credit purchase options, more value. Character related purchases to help drive stories.

A few have pointed out already, credits don't do enough. You get citizenship, some cheap skill slots, maybe a language or two, a nice weapon (If there's one to get). Then you dump the rest into money.

Credits can count towards future RP purchases, including stuff like re-traits, custom items, skill slot swaps, etc.

Items purchasable with credits need to have values adjusted and standardized.

Can be used to purchase holdings, properties, rise in class.

Buy background story legitimacy, the ability to assert more than mechanical influence, famous parents and friends, etc.

- Credits, money and GSP rates are standardized at desirable rates and exchangeable. Create a 'pick what you want' situation.

- Revert custom item policy changes
Self explanatory. And I'll personally volunteer to handle all custom item requests in a timely manner. 

And if you're willing to get wild, I've got a few standalone suggestions that would be a fundamental difference in application of what you're proposing:

- VC's levels are not for one character, they are purchased for all future character rolls. Once purchased it's permanent. Can be upgraded to any level at any time, up to VC 30.

- VC packages are purchasable at any time during a characters life, rather than just at the beginning. would include everything but the chargen.

- By far the easiest solution: Drastically increase the rate of RP gain so that the packages as you've proposed are more affordable. RP's are just too valuable to justify these sorts of purchases over other, more affordable options, like incremental stat potential purchases.

Final note, and I'm going to use a hypothetical as an example. Lets say instead of the VC system, you offered a flat discount on attribute potential if bought in bulk. Lets say that a purchase of 30 or more points comes with a 50% off discount, and there's no cap. Even though we've taken by far the most valuable part of the current system, and we've offered a discount that far surpasses anything currently being proposed, you probably still wouldn't see many purchases that exceeded 5000 RP's in value over such a systems lifetime. Don't get me wrong, there would be exceptions. But the vast majority of purchases would be between 30, where the discount starts, and whatever player have available or actually need.

I'm trying to put this in context, so there's a good understanding of what your proposed system is competing with. And not only is that it's competitor, but the games current gameplay of grind and collect is also at odds with it; there's not really an incentive for people to restart, or have more than one character. Any system you develop is going to be underutilized until you can address that. Your customer base is made up almost entirely of people who have been around long enough to acquire a character worth a VC30, or with 20,000 RP's upfront to spend on one. That's a larger issue that's likely going to hamper any changes you make to the current VC system.

Appreciate you coming out here and chatting. Thanks for reading.
Cheers!

It'd be nice if we could add the newer weapons and/or update the armors that the Kelestian war has brought as well. The credits-to-sp system is pretty useful to try one of the new weapons if you can't learn falx/slings/falcata/chain blade in the veteran lobby. The same goes along with the armor shop. The price point for a Squamata or oval shield or a bronze faceplate is very overpriced when it's not even 'meta' anymore. I imagine a lot of folks just settle for credits-to-gold system or get screwed over not knowing the actual value of the items isn't desirable thus wasting their credits.

It'd be nice if we could add the newer weapons and/or update the armors that the Kelestian war has brought as well. The credits-to-sp system is pretty useful to try one of the new weapons if you can't learn falx/slings/falcata/chain blade in the veteran lobby. The same goes along with the armor shop. The price point for a Squamata or oval shield or a bronze faceplate is very overpriced when it's not even 'meta' anymore. I imagine a lot of folks just settle for credits-to-gold system or get screwed over not knowing the actual value of the items isn't desirable thus wasting their credits.

Maybe the max level VC's get a free room at a new inn subsidized buy the government. A true Veteran Benefit of sorts. Think of it like the champion's villa from hunger games.

Trait Boost!

VC 11-15 get a 1 point starting trait boost. 

VC 15-20 get a 2 point starting trait boost.

VC 20-25 get a 3 point starting trait boost.

VC 26-30 get a 4 point starting trait boost.

Also - allow "empathy stat points" to be separate from main stat pool.

So that they can allocate a 20-25% of there attribute points to empathy.